The Debate on God

September 23, 2010 at 5:08 am (Religion)

Here is a debate between a freind and I, I was wondering where everyone else stands on the issue.

Question:  The bible hasn’t been wrong in 6,000 years. Do you really want to question it now?

My response: The assumption was that if we grandfather the idea of god and say “look at all these people who have believed for all this time” then I can empirically say “and here are all the people who have questioned since the beginning” The debate over god cannot really be settled because no matter how many times someone claims there is one, I ask for evidence, there is none. which leads to the idea of faith for which there is also no evidence. Beliefs in a higher being cannot be empirically proven no dis-proven. Thus I do question for both sides and see no rational reason to accept either. ^.^

Friend response to me: Aubrey, given our past record with debate, I would like to dig into this a littlel deeper and see if we can find the rabbi…t hole 🙂 I have found evidence, and I can prove through referencing to historical finding, scientific findings, and biology, theology, the proof that there has to be a higher power.

Romans 1:19-20

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Romans 2:14

14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Romans 2:15

15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
2Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

All these verses relate to God being the founder of all things. It even explains why we naturally know that things are wrong. I don’t have to tell someone that one of the commandments of God is do not murder, we already know that is wrong.

Now, opposing side.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/

if you really want to read it all….pretty much, billions of years accounts for rocks hitting against each other and….we are here now….

Proved through rocks and fossils

My biggest question is how could something come from nothing? If God is not there, that means that there is nothing that created this, which means nothing became something on its own.

I believe in God, some believe in dirt. Difference? I know where my dirt came from, where did yours?

The biggest problem I have with evolution is that it is all based on humanistic values, which is atheistic at heart.

If there is no God, we are no better than pigs and rats. Which would means we are cause and effect machines. Which takes away all free will, which takes away all responsibility for our actions, which takes away all accountability. No meaning to life, nothing after we die, no reason to wake up.

I don’t know about you, but I would hate to live in that world 😦

Now, the opposing sides fights.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

If you want more facts, I have videos, books, talks, all kinds of stuff.

I could fill up a whole filing cabinet and take on a whole tournament 🙂

My response: As for the argument for god, give em an example of something that does not come inscribed in a book that is supposedly given to humans form ‘god’ It is a logical fallacy to say that I know god is real because the book he gave to us says so…. I then can believe that the vampire Lestat is real cause of the book he wrote and gave to us through Ann Rice as a prophet. Under that premise I have yet to see evidence that you can gather from a more reliable source, aka empirically.
As for the evolution claim. There is not a claim that nothing came from something it is physics that states that the matter in the universe came from a hyper black hole that once it reach maximum density exploded giving the universe and that it (theoretically) will re-collapse and do it all over again. Evolution is scientifically backed up and the reason that it is ‘agnostic’ at heart not ‘atheist’ is that whether or not god exists there can be an empirical claim in the world allowing us to have a causal connection in the world around us. and that cause and effect does not declare a lack of free will. the way that our brains have ‘evolve’ has given us a small evolutionary 1 up on the rest of the evolving species on the planet. Not because god commands it but because with the way that our bodies are built we either had to adapt to our environment or die off like other have. We evolved.
This allows us to make a cognitive choice and thus retain our free will. Beyond that there is a claim in your argumetn that without god I would have no purpouse. However if I am a free agent of my own making that functions within the laws of nature without some over protective father figure watching my every move then I have a huge pourpuse each morning: to define myself by my action and to creat my own existence in the world with out the help of a higher power. This is because I as a free agent am powerful enough to make my own choices without supervision.
the idea that god needs to be in our lives is the result of anxiety about taking responsibility for ones own actions and the fear of death and all that in tells. Rationally there is no empirical claim for this thing called god that cannot be said and cannot be explained in some fashion by science. Further more if one were to say that it is because god willed it that way then your god in non-unique and becomes a matter of taste then a necessity to function in the world.

*~*~*~*

What is your stance on the issue and is there any empirical evidence that can be made to prove the existence of God other then ‘faith’ based arguments?

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